Posts tagged cybertron
Posts tagged cybertron
It always gets me when people say the BW Predacons were freedom fighters. Because… well, to be honest, save for Dinobot, none of them were.
Megatron was charismatic, but he was a supremacist who was driven by the idea of destiny and a desire to lord over not just Cybertron, but fundamental forces of the universe itself. He had a god complex, and never showed an ounce of concern for his subordinates that didn’t involve desiring them as pawns or possessions.
Terrorsaur was more concerned with prestige and rank. Tarantulas was a psychopath and a cannibal with his own agenda. Scorponok was a thug who liked taking advantage of those weaker than him. Blackarachnia, Quickstrike, and Inferno never even had a cause, just their own selfish desires or loyalties - Blackarachnia eventually turned, of course, Quickstrike just wanted to hurt people, and while Inferno may have been loyal, it was a psychopathic kind of loyalty to the aforementioned would-be tyrant with a god complex. Ravage? Acted in the interests of duplicitous politicians and then later switched sides due to the words of a long-dead ACTUAL TYRANT whose motivations were far far FAR from noble.
Really, when the most sympathetic members of your group are Dinobot, who ultimately defected, Blackarachnia, who was originally scheming and purely self interested until she found love, Waspinator, and Rampage, the misbegotten self-loathing product of science runamuck, you can’t call yourself “freedom fighters.”
Now, I’m not saying that in BW, the Maximal elders weren’t morally ambiguous, and that noble Predacons couldn’t exist. The show certainly leaves the door open for that. But the show Predacons? The ones we saw on screen?
They aren’t Freedom Fighters. They’re a band of self interested, genocidal psychopaths.
Pretty much all of this.
While there are hints that life back on Cybertron might be not exactly be Steak and Onions under complete Maximal leadership, the basic conflict as presented in the show proper is pretty elementary. Megatron and his band of Predacon followers are Nasty no-Goodnicks with few redeeming qualities who honestly need to be stopped and that’s that.
It’s why I can watch them get punched in the face guilt free. Sometimes you need that…
If I may ask, why do you hate Beast Machines? What was it about the series that made you dislike it?
I could make TEN essays describing why I don’t like this series.
It changes EVERYTHING about Beast Wars for the worst. Rattrap is a coward, Megatron actually has a sense of ‘honor’ (the VERY thing he never had, and Rattrap was only a coward in the first two episodes of BW, after that he was a badass), and Optimus who was a harsh but kind commander in BW becomes nothing more than a preacher who lets EVERYONE walk all over him. Seriously, BW Optimus never took shit from anyone, but BM Optimus? He just didn’t even care.
Plus let’s break down the plot of Beast Machines:
It’s an environmental message…for robots.
On a robot planet.
There should not be organic there.
Not to mention the show NEVER explained ANYTHING. They never told us where the virus came from, they never told us how Megatron got so much power, they never told us where he got the vehicons, they never told us anything. Black Arachnia who was the inventor and scientist in BW was reduced to PURELY a love interest, and instead Rattrap took over the science department. You know, because the girl character can’t be the scientist.
Also, there should NOT be any organic on Cybertron.
There was even an official comic made about this that debunked Beast Machines saying the whole organic thing was a ruse by the ‘evil oracle.’ Which makes MUCH more sense. In fact that is the only way I could watch the show by knowing that the oracle is manipulating Optimus and that the ‘dirt’ and ‘organic’ of Cybertron was just the ruins of an old Earth museum on Cybertron that the oracle used to justify her reign.
It’s totally messed up, but Cheetor was done pretty well in it.
A lot of what is wrong with Beast Machines boils down to the characters. It’s also what makes the show so hard for Beast Wars enthusiasts to watch.
However, Beast Machines has tons and tons of structure and writing problems too. Not to mention pacing issues. So while it might not be the most disappointing thing since the Phantom Menace… It still deserves a great deal of criticism.
So let this be my endorsement to Luminak to write 10 or 12 essays on the subject.
But yeah, Cheetor was done alright though. Botanica and Strika were cool too.
“The devastation to our homeworld is worse than I remember. Curse the Autobots to the Pit!”
We’ve heard the Autobots blame the Decepticons so many times for the war and the decline of Cybertron, I found it very interesting to hear the Decepticons’ point of view is exactly the opposite. I think this is the first time such a thing was said in canon. It’s very cool because it’s so much more realistic than having all the Decepticons be like “Let’s do bad evil things because we’re bad and evil!” Good job, writers.
OMG, you responded. I’m caught off-guard here. Okay, deep breath. For me, Sludge is a mixture of his profile and the…
These are all very interesting points, so I can understand why you like the character so much. Given this, I’d probably advise you not to play Fall of Cybertron without bracing yourself for something that’d probably upset you.
(placing spoilers for FoC under a cut)
Certainly not fun to hear. I can handle that stuff, for the most part, but these days I’m really picky on the way every single TF character is treated, because favoritism is more rampant than ever before. Do Grimlock and Swoop share his fate, or is it just Sludge?
Well… It’s a little complicated… And, again, will involve me spoiling a great deal of plot points
cruelfeline: I’ve always found it interesting how the Decepticons all seem to be obsessed with rank. Weren’t they the ones who wanted to abolish the old caste system? Y’all have lost sight of your goal, haven’t you?
krakenbell: So I’m inclined to think the obsession with rank is no longer a matter of caste. Any member of the named rank and file (I’m excluding the Vehicons – I’m still not really sure what to do with them) has the opportunity to advance, regardless of caste – provided they have the firepower, the ruthlessness, and the pain tolerance to back it up.
And don’t happen to be around Megatron when he’s on dark energon. Or when he’s in a bad mood. Or when it’s Tuesday. And I’d be willing to argue that, in Megatron’s mind, this is a significant improvement over the way it used to be. Especially given his gladiatorial background – the strong survive, the weak perish. But hey! It’s not a caste system anymore.
(Yeah, the goal went off a cliff a while back.)
draqua: Yup. This is a Megatron no longer actively pursuing his original cause. This is a Megatron obsessed with some basic wants, and they’re not focused on making earth the new vacation spot for all Decepticons. Its all about, like so many things in this world, shoving pointy things into Optimus Prime’s dark places.
Murder! I mean murder!
*claps* Beautiful analysis, Draqua. Just beautiful. And I enjoyed how you tied the two seasons together in a timeline from sick mind to the current infestation. (I also enjoyed the mental image of a harem of Soundwaves.) The infestation of insecticons truly is symbolic at this point, because their arrival has put the rest of the army on a side burner. The Vehicons no longer matter, Knock Out no longer matters, and the insecticons are willing to as a hive follow Megatron’s every whim.
Its almost a sort of meta commentary on the slavish manner to which the Transformers franchise (and by greater extension, the longtime fans of said franchise) venerates the archetypes of Optimus and Megatron.
I agree with you, Draqua, the whole aspect of the archetype of Megatron and Optimus has boiled down to them no longer able to represent themselves as individuals and they are now icons/symbols/figureheads of the Autobots and Deceptcions.
The most puzzling aspect would have to be is where does Cybertron lie in all this. I know it is a desolate wasteland, but do either of them have a plan for their world after the war is over? What I never hear from any of the bots OR cons is the idea of “When I get home.” They just accepted the aspect that they’re never going to end, there’s always some power struggle. They are never explored with their goals. That’s where I look to the IDW Transformers Ongoing. The meetup of the Newly Revived Megatron and Optimus both speaking to one another.
This is my favorite Scene in all of IDW History - When Optimus and Megatron question their motives.
(^CLICK HERE^ Page 13 - Transformers Ongoing Issue 22)
As you can see here, Megatron’s goals aren’t on the war, it’s after, it’s WHAT he’s fighting for. There is a goal to rebuild Cybertron, make it so that it was a better place than it EVER was before. He was a Patriot for his people.
Transformers Prime Megatron was a Gladiator, someone who was a warrior by entertainment, and he was greedy for power. There isn’t a complex character dynamic to him, at least not executed correctly. Where as Optimus is still much like his IDW interpretation when Orion Pax. Where he believes what Megatron is saying and what Megatron is fighting for, but has a more pure motive.
Indeed. In TFP, I always get the impression that the Autobots are just fighting to stay safe and alive. Cybertron’s basically dead, they can’t safely travel through space, they can only maintain relatively safe shelter on earth if they keep the Decepticons (who vastly outnumber them in terms of firepower and sheer number) at bay, and they’re constantly under threat of exodus via the American government. Their goal right now is “get through each day intact” as opposed to “Get home” as past incarnations of the franchise have been. Whereas by contrast, I get the feeling that the Decepticons (but not necessarily Megatron) are thinking “Forget Cybertron! Let’s build a new home, and damn any humans, trees, or bunnies that happen to be in our path”.
This is why I really like the sequence from Orion Pax part 2 where Jack and Arcee are overlooking a devastated Cybertron. Arcee is saddened by what her planet has been reduced to and acknowledges the futility of her and the Autobots’ actions in the long term. Even if the Autobots of TFP eventually capture, kill, or convert all of Megatron’s forces… where can they go? Its some heavy stuff. As noted by Arcee herself, in a war, the current mission typically becomes the sole focus of the participants, not the endgame. That’s the ultimate tragedy the setup of TFP is based on, and I really hope that the incoming incarnation of Shockwave is related somehow to this premise.
And yes, IDW Optimus and Megatron are awesome.
Well, hey; look at that: Arcee feels!
…and now I’m sad.
In under two minutes, Transformers Prime does what Beast Machines failed to do in 26 episodes: make me emotionally invested in a desolate Cybertron and instill the desire to see it and its populous restored.
Lonely robot in a wasteland…
And Primus did sayth unto his children: “Insert rod A into port subsection B..”